我眼中的《西游記》

我眼中的《西游記》

“Journey to the West” Through My Eyes

從第5期開始,“World Speaking”欄目的中文名稱由原來的“國際朋友圈”，更名為“國際朋友說”。這一期，我們走出了《國際人才交流》編輯部，來到中央電視臺腳下的媒體人咖啡館。這也是本欄目首次對外公開舉辦，除了討論嘉賓之外，現(xiàn)場有20余名觀眾參與其中。今年是猴年，《西游記》、孫悟空、六小齡童等都成為前一段時(shí)間大眾討論的熱點(diǎn)，本期話題：“我眼中的《西游記》”，聽聽年輕的國際朋友們眼中的《西游記》是怎樣的。

This time, we staged our World Speaking monthly meeting outside SAFEA, and transferred it to the Media Coffee right next to the CCTV Tower. Moreover, it is the first time we made it open to the public, and apart from the participants, we had the audience of more than 20 people. This year is the Year of the Monkey, so “Journey to the West”, Sun Wukong, Liu Xiao Ling Tong etc. became this year’s hot topics. In the present edition we will focus on how our young foreign friends view “Journey to the West”.

主持人(Hosts)：吳星鐸（Wu Xingduo）、 蘇莉（Anastasia Sukhoretskaya）

嘉賓(Guests)：米沙（Mikhail Chursin）、于嬿華（Filiz Unal）、胡鳳蘭（Victoria Khu）安陽（Amira Ahmed Elsayed）

走進(jìn)西游

你是怎么知道《西游記》的？

米沙：我上大學(xué)之后才讀了《西游記》的俄語版小說，之前對《西游記》并不了解。其實(shí)我小的時(shí)候非常喜歡神話故事，對這類書籍都愛不釋

Embarking on “Journey to the West”

How did you know about “Journey to the West”?

Mikhail:After I became a university student, I got a chance to read the Russian edition of “Journey to the West”. I was completely unfamiliar with the book before. Frankly speaking, since childhood, I was so fond of fairytales. Now I regret that I didn’t discover “Journey to the West” earlier.手，我對《西游記》有點(diǎn)相見恨晚，真的希望自己能早一點(diǎn)讀到這本小說。

于嬿華：我母親是華人，小時(shí)候一到夏天我就來北京，可能是七八歲的時(shí)候，我第一次看了1986年版的《西游記》，那時(shí)打開電視就在播放這部電視劇，就斷斷續(xù)續(xù)地看。

安陽：我剛上大學(xué)的時(shí)候，我們的老師在文學(xué)課上介紹中國的四大名著，就是《三國演義》、《紅樓夢》、《水滸傳》、《西游記》，到了中國以后，我開始讀這本小說，我讀的是中文版原著，一邊拿字典查不認(rèn)識的字，一邊讀，我用了大約40天的時(shí)間讀完了它。

胡鳳蘭：我是來自俄羅斯的華裔姑娘，我的家庭同時(shí)使用俄文、中文。《西游記》我沒有看過小說版，電視劇真的是看了無數(shù)遍。記得當(dāng)年一到春節(jié)，好像所有的電視臺都在播《西游記》。動畫片我也看過，我有兩個妹妹，小妹妹現(xiàn)在9歲，她也非常喜歡《西游記》，很多故事情節(jié)她都能背下來，她經(jīng)常拿著一個紅色的圍巾：“我是紅孩兒！我來啦！”然后讓我們當(dāng)妖怪。

Filiz:My mother is Chinese, that’s why we used to come to Beijing every summer when I was kid. I watched 1986 version “Journey to the West”, when I was at the age of 7 or 8. I watched it miscellaneously, switching on TV from time to time.

Amira:At the beginning of my university studies, our teacher of literature introduced to us the Four Great Classical Novels of Chinese literature, which were “Romance of the Three Kingdoms”, “Dream of the Red Chamber”, “Water Margin” and “Journey to the West”. I started reading “Journey to the West” only after I had come to China. Because I was reading the original version in Chinese, I was half checking the dictionary, half trying to understand the book. It took me 40 days to finish the whole story.

Victoria:I am a Russian-born Chinese. In our family we speak both Russian and Chinese. I haven’t read the book, but I watched the series countless times. I still remember, during the Spring Festival, all channels screened“Journey to the West”. I watched the cartoon as well. Besides, I have two sisters. My youngest sister is 9 years old, and she is so fond of “Journey to the West”, that can retell some parts verbatim. She often says while waving a red kerchief: “I am the red boy Hong Haier! Here I come!” Then asks us to play the monsters’ part.

最喜歡《西游記》里的哪個人物？

米沙：《西游記》里的每個人物都是不一樣的，就好像我們的社會。我最喜歡的人物，當(dāng)然是美猴王，他通過自己的拼搏，能戰(zhàn)勝各種困難。而且從男生的角度來說，我很喜歡里邊孫悟空戰(zhàn)斗的部分。

于嬿華：小時(shí)候我最喜歡孫悟空，現(xiàn)在最喜歡沙和尚。小時(shí)候喜歡孫悟空，是因?yàn)槟阆氩坏剿檬裁捶椒ń鉀Q問題，每次看他都有一種很神奇的感覺，他叛逆、勇敢、有目標(biāo)；現(xiàn)在更喜歡沙和尚，因?yàn)樗麡銓?shí)、善良、認(rèn)真、不抱怨。雖然在四個角色里他戲份最少，但是我覺得他看著讓人比較放心。

胡鳳蘭：我最喜歡的人物，是豬八戒。我在想，如果我找老公，我肯定找豬八戒這樣的，雖然有些小缺點(diǎn)，比如貪吃，喜歡追女孩子，但是每次他追女孩子，最終都還是跟唐僧乖乖地走了，所以說，只要他的心落下來，就肯定會跟著這個人了。

Which character from “Journey to the West” do you like most?

Mikhail:Every character in “Journey to the West” is unique, and resonates with our society. Without doubt, the character I like most is Sun Wukong. He broke through all the hardship and succeeded. Also, born a man, I especially admire Sun Wukong’s fighting spirit.

Filiz:When I was a kid, I was fascinated by Sun Wukong, and now I am more into Sha Wujing. I liked Sun Wukong because his methods of dealing with hardship are unpredictable. Every time you watch him in action, he gives you that wonderful feeling. He is rebellious, courageous, goal-orientated. Now I like Sha Wujing for him being simple, kind, earnest and never complaining. Even though he doesn’t have much appearance in the book, compared to the other characters, but, to my personal thinking, he leaves you with peacefulness of mind.

Victoria:The character I like most is Zhu Bajie. If I were on the lookout for a husband, I would definitely choose someone like Zhu Bajie. Even though he is not without faults, for example, he is a bit of a glutton and likes chasing after girls, but if you take a closer look at him, you will see that every time he’s flirting with someone, he still prefers to follow Tang Sanzang. That gives me an impression that as soon as his heart settles down, he will stay with the person.

Brainstorm

Sun Wukong was able to travel the distance of one hundred and eight thousand li to reach Buddha, why then was everyone put into eighty-one challenges?

Filiz:Actually, I was not aware of how much distance they could cover in one leap, I learnt it just now. But, in my opinion, the most important thing is not destination but a journey. They learnt so many things and exercised their skills and abilities.

奇思妙想

孫悟空一個跟頭十萬八千里，能直接到佛祖那兒，為什么大家還要一路那么辛苦，經(jīng)歷九九八十一難？

于嬿華：其實(shí)我以前也不知道他一個跟頭能翻那么遠(yuǎn)的距離，我也是剛知道。但是我覺得，其實(shí)重要的不是終點(diǎn)，而是過程。在這個過程中，他們可以學(xué)到很多，同時(shí)可以展示他們每個人的才能。

米沙：太容易得到的東西，人們往往不會太珍惜，歷經(jīng)苦難，才能學(xué)會珍惜。

女兒國的女王特別地愛慕唐僧，希望他留下來。如果你是唐僧的話，你是選擇繼續(xù)去取經(jīng)，還是為了真摯的愛情留在那個地方？

于嬿華：我覺得如果有目標(biāo)，就是那種挑戰(zhàn)的心，不管成功不成功，我覺得嘗試才是最重要的。如果我是唐僧，我會先去取經(jīng)，取完經(jīng)再回到女兒國。

胡鳳蘭：能到佛祖那里的人太多了，為什么要給他們？因?yàn)樗麄兙褪且ㄟ^各種磨難，這是安排好的。佛祖、菩薩其實(shí)一直在暗中保護(hù)著他們，肯定不會讓別人把唐僧給吃了。而且，如果女兒國的國王萬一是妖精怎么辦呢？

米沙：選擇愛情還是事業(yè)，這是一個兩難的選擇。應(yīng)該考慮對你來說，哪一個更重要？如果是我，我會堅(jiān)定地選擇取經(jīng)的事業(yè)，因?yàn)檫@會造福更多人。

Mikhail:What is easily obtained is not cherished. By overcoming hardship, only does a person learn to cherish.

Queen of Women’s Kingdom was so fond of Tang Sanzang, that she hoped he would stay with her. If you were Tang Sanzang, what would you choose: proceeding with the pilgrimage to obtain the holy Buddhist scriptures or stay in the Kingdom for the love’s sake?

Filiz:I believe, if someone has a goal and a fighting spirit, giving it a try is more important than stars at the end of the journey. If I were Tang Sanzang, I would get the scriptures first, and only then come back to the Women’s Kingdom.

Victoria:There are other people who can come to Buddha, why were the scriptures given to Tang Sanzang? Because they circumvented the obstacles, which was part of a plan. Buddha was secretly guarding them, and, certainly, would not let other people to hurt them. Moreover, what if the Queen of Women’s Kingdom turned out to be an evil spirit, what to do in that case?

Mikhail:What to choose, love or career, is not an easy question. I guess one has to decide what is more important for him personally. If it were for me to choose, I would opt for career, because that way I would make more people happy.

真假美猴王一節(jié)，唐僧、觀音菩薩都分辨不出真假，只有如來佛自己知道誰是真的，有人大開腦洞說如來佛消滅了調(diào)皮搗蛋的真的孫悟空，而留下了聽話的六耳獼猴保護(hù)唐僧取經(jīng)。如果讓你選，你會選擇誰去取經(jīng)？

胡鳳蘭：我覺得這個問題要嬿華先回答，因?yàn)槟阌须p胞胎姐妹。

主持人：這是今天最妙的一個點(diǎn)。

于嬿華：我怎么知道那個聽話的六耳獼猴有一天不會背叛我？孫悟空本來就有決心去取經(jīng)的，我會選擇孫悟空。

安陽：我會選擇聽話的六耳獼猴，因?yàn)樵瓡f了，他們兩個是一樣強(qiáng)大的。我一定選聽話的人，來實(shí)現(xiàn)我的安排。

米沙：我選擇原來的孫悟空。因?yàn)槁犜挼牧J猴有可能完不成這個任務(wù)，因?yàn)槲覀儼才挪涣怂械?/p>

Is the Monkey King real or fake? Tang Sanzang, Bodhisattva Guanyin, all were not able to tell the difference. Only Buddha himself could do that. Someone says, Buddha eliminated the naughty real Sun Wukong, leaving obedient six-eared macaque to help Tang Sanzang safely get the scriptures. If it were for you to make a decision, what decision would that would be?

Victoria:I would rather address this question to Filiz first, as she has a twin sister (laughing).

Host:A good point!

Filiz:How would I know that this macaque would not let me down? Sun Wukong was so determined to get the scriptures. I would rather choose Sun Wukong.

Amira:I would choose the six-eared macaque, anyway, as mentioned, both of them are equally powerful. I would choose the obedient one, I need him to follow my personal plan.

Mikhail:I would pick the real Sun Wukong. Might be, the obedient macaque would not be able to fulfill the mission, because it is impossible to control everything. Why was Sun Wukong rebellious at times? Because he got his own opinion, his own ideas and beliefs that helped him to gain success.

Victoria:I think this question is a good one. Personally speaking, I would also go for the obedient one, because he would do what I said.

Host: And what we have here is two to two. Seems like Sun Wukong had every chance to be dismissed.

Culture Shock

How well is “Journey to the West” known in your country? How事情。為什么孫悟空有時(shí)候不聽話？因?yàn)樗邢敕ǎ袆?chuàng)意，有信心能做得到。

胡鳳蘭：我覺得這個問題特別好，從我的角度出發(fā)，我也會選擇聽話的那一個，來執(zhí)行我的想法。

主持人：結(jié)果是二比二，看來孫悟空真有可能被消滅掉了。

米沙，哈薩克斯坦留學(xué)生，目前就讀于北京語言大學(xué)國際政治專業(yè)

Mikhail Chursin, foreign student from Kazakhstan, now at Beijing Language and Culture University learning International Politics major

于嬿華，土耳其留學(xué)生，目前就讀于北京大學(xué)對外漢語教育專業(yè)

Filiz Unal,foreign student from Turkey, now at Beijing University learning Teaching Chinese to Speakers of Other Languages

胡鳳蘭，來自俄羅斯的華裔姑娘，目前就讀于北京語言大學(xué)國際文化交流專業(yè)

Victoria Khu, a Chinese girl from Russia. Now at Beijing Language and Culture University, major of International Culture and Communication.

安陽，埃及留學(xué)生，目前在中國傳媒大學(xué)學(xué)習(xí)漢語語言

Amira Ahmed Elsayed,from Egypt, now at Communication University of China studying Chinese language

文化碰撞

你們國家知道《西游記》、孫悟空的人多嗎？你們國家的神話里有沒有類似孫悟空的人物？談?wù)勀阒赖耐鈬纳裨捙c《西游記》的對比。

many people have heard of Sun Wukong? Is there a personage like Sun Wukong in your culture? Share with us the folk and fairy tales characteristic of your country and compare them with “Journey to the West”.

Mikhail:In my country, those who actually know “Journey to the West”are not many. Mostly, only those who learn Chinese or China studies are familiar with “Journey to the West”. I don’t think in Kazakhstan we have something similar to “Journey to the West”. As a comparison, I would rather make an example of Tolkien’s “Lord of the Rings”. Gandalf from this book can be compared with Sun Wukong, because they both possess enormous abilities and can make magic, also both are smart and got incredible sense of humour.

Amira:In Egypt we have a similar story called “The travels of Ibn Battuta”. Ibn Battuta is a 14th century Muslim scholar and traveler, likes adventures, hungry for knowing the outside world. He started travelling at the age of 21. At first, he only wanted to visit Hajj. He never expected it to last for another 30 years. By that time, he had crossed almost all Islamic countries,

米沙：在我們國家，知道《西游記》的人并不多。只有學(xué)中文的、中國文學(xué)的人才知道《西游記》。好像在哈薩克斯坦并沒有這樣的神話，如果要比較一下，我覺得英國作家托爾金寫的《魔戒》（The Lord of the Rings）可以和西游記媲美，甘道夫（Gandalf）可以跟孫悟空來相比，他們都非常厲害，會法術(shù)，非常聰明，而且都是非常幽默的人。

安陽：我要說一本在埃及流傳比較廣的類似《西游記》的小說，叫《伊本·巴圖塔游記》。伊本·巴圖塔是14 世紀(jì)的穆斯林學(xué)者和旅行家，喜歡冒險(xiǎn)，渴望了解外面的世界，21歲時(shí)便踏上旅程。最初他想去麥加朝圣，卻沒想到這次旅行一直持續(xù)了將近30年。在那期間，他的足跡幾乎踏遍了所有伊斯蘭國家，并遠(yuǎn)至北非、西非、西方的南歐和東歐以及東方的中東、印度次大陸、中亞、東南亞和中國，行程遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超越了其前輩以及略早期的馬可·波羅。我覺得巴圖塔就像孫悟空一樣，他有自己的目標(biāo)，聰明、敢冒險(xiǎn)，無論遇到什么困難，他都會想辦法去解決。

于嬿華：我小時(shí)候經(jīng)常換國家，大部分時(shí)間是在學(xué)語言的過程中長大的。我在日本的感受，神話我可能了解的不是很多，但是日本動漫比較有名。我覺得孫悟空和日本動漫里的柯南比較像，看人特別準(zhǔn)，當(dāng)然孫悟空是有火眼金睛的，柯南則主要靠分析，然后找出解決問題的辦法。而在土耳其的伊斯蘭教文化里，我們不說神話，而說神跡，就是一些先知做了什么，像是一種歷史故事。比如在沙漠里，當(dāng)時(shí)大家都特別需要水，一個先知就拿著杯子說：你們等一下，我會讓這個杯子盛滿水，然后杯子就突然自動裝滿水了。或者，一條大河擋在大家面前，先知說：我會讓這條河從中間分開，然后河就真的分開了。

胡鳳蘭：我的感覺是中國的神話跟俄羅斯神話故事最大的區(qū)別在于，在中國的神話故事里，你要非常努力才能達(dá)到一個目標(biāo)，證明中國人都很勤勞，很敬業(yè)，在俄羅斯的神話里呢，一變，什么就都有了，不需要努力。都很神奇。比如說普希金寫的《漁夫和金魚》的故事。他用詩的語言，讓小孩子聽著覺得很有意思，有神話的一些因素里面。但是大人一看，就知道沒有天上掉餡餅的事情。reached such far-off places like North and West of Africa, Southern and Eastern European countries, Central-Eastern Asia, Central Asia, India, South-Eastern Asia and China. His travelling routs long surpassed those of Marco Polo, Ibn’s predecessor.

Ibn is “Journey to the West” ‘s Sun Wukong. He also knew his goals, was very savvy and adventurous. No matter what obstacles he might have come across along his travels, he was always able to find a solution.

Filiz: When I was little, we frequently changed countries. I grew up having to learn a number of languages. Frankly speaking, I am not very familiar with the Japanese folk tales, but Japanese cartoons are rather well-known. I believe Sun Wukong is a prototype for Japan’s Conan. They both see people very well. But, of course, Sun Wukong is more insightful. Conan comes up with a solution through a thorough analysis. More to add, in Turkish Islamic culture, we don’t call our folklore a fairytale. We call them stories of miracles, because in many of them the main character is a prophet, which makes them look more like the historical works. As an example, there is a story, where in the desert people were in an urgent need of water. One prophet took a glass and uttered: “Wait a little bit, and I will fill this glass with water!” And then, miraculously, the glass gets filled with water. Or a river, that laid out before the travelers. The prophet said he would make a pass right in the middle of the river. And again, with a touch of magic, the river gave way to the travelers.

Victoria:As for me, the biggest difference between Russian and Chinese fairytales is here: in the Chinese stories you have to work hard to achieve what you want which proves Chinese people to be a hard-working nation, very devoted to work. In Russia, it is that everything is miraculously provided so you don’t need to try so hard. For example, Pushkin’s “An old man and a golden fish” which is written in the form of a poem. This interesting style attracts kids’ attention, but when the adults come to reading the fairytale, it is clear to them that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

一句話結(jié)尾

米沙：《西游記》如現(xiàn)代社會。

于嬿華：四個人，其實(shí)就是我們。

安陽：《西游記》，中國神話。

胡鳳蘭：《西游記》，中華民族寶貴的文化遺產(chǎn)。（中文整理：吳星鐸，英文整理：蘇莉，實(shí)習(xí)生劉暢、張祚祺參與錄音整理）

Summary:

Mikhail:“Journey to the West” reflects the modern society.

Filiz:Four characters, actually it’s us.

Amira:“Journey to the West”, Chinese fairytale.

Victoria:“Journey to the West”, Chinese people’s national cultural heritage. (Chinese version: Wu Xingduo; English version: Anastasia Sukhoretskaya; interns Liu Chang, Zhang Zuoqi responsible for recording decipherment).