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Gu: Good morning， Vice President Li Xiaolin. Thank you for finding time to accept my interview despite your busy schedule. Actually it’s not a formal interview， but a free chat. Of the current leading members of the Friendship Association， you are the youngest as vice president. But in view of the time of working with the Association， you can be regarded as a veteran; you must have profound feelings for the Association and a deep understanding of people-to-people diplomacy work. If I’m not mistaken， you came to work with the Association in the seventies of the last century.

Li: It was in 1975 when I was twenty-two years old. How time flies! Fully thirty years have passed. Even the saplings in the compound of the Association have now grown into big trees. It may be said that I’ve worked half of my life with the Association for the cause of people’s friendship. Naturally I have deep affection even for the trees and grass in this compound. As market economy is in practice now， there are lures and attractions everywhere. But I’ve remained at the Association all the time; I’ve never wavered. Why am I so devoted to people-to-people diplomacy work? Because I firmly believe that it’s a lofty cause to make friends for the sake of our country. It would be impossible to achieve modernization of the country without a stable domestic situation as well as stable relations with neighbouring countries and a stable international environment. And in order to improve our international environment and cope with the changeable international situation， people-to-people diplomacy is absolutely indispensable as a component part of diplomatic work. So I feel what I’m doing is a significant work; and once I started， I’ve been doing the work for thirty years running.

Gu: I fully agree with what you’ve said about people-to-people diplomacy work. You have been responsible for the Association’s work in American and Oceanian affairs for a long time. Just take the work in American affairs for example， people-to-people diplomacy has played a pioneer role and made indelible contributions in the course of the establishment of Sino-American relations.

Li: That’s true. When President Nixon first visited China in 1972， the Friendship Association was at the time the only nongovernmental organization with the ability to receive American delegations. In the subsequent several years， we annually hosted eight or nine American groups with about two hundred guests. At that time this was quite a big number. The gates of China and America were just open to each other， and so both sides had a strong curiosity and experienced a sort of dream-like period in their relations. The Americans were eager to know China’s ancient civilization of five thousand years， and wanted to come to China to see the Great Wall， the Terra-Cotta and panda and drink maotai. And we? We used to look at the Americans as monsters， only knowing that the American soldiers had committed all manner of crimes like killing， burning and bombing in Korea and Viet Nam. When we had first contacts with the Americans， however， we found them quite friendly and polite. For example， we used to let leaders go first; whereas the Americans said “Ladies first”， which was quite new to us. It can be said that through that period of friendly contacts both sides changed their impression of the other side as a monster.

Gu: What you have said is very interesting. I remember when Nixon visited China， we presented America with a pair of pandas， while America gave us a pair of musk-oxen. And this pair of musk-oxen was escorted to Beijing by the dean of Washington Zoo by special plane. I participated in the reception work as an interpreter of the Friendship Association. Comrade Han Xu， who became president of the Friendship Association later， was at that time the director general of the Protocol Department of the Foreign Ministry and was in charge of this affair. That was my first contact with Americans， and I had a similar impression of them as you’ve said just now.

Li: But in 1989， this state of affairs was thoroughly broken and Sino-American official diplomacy was brought to a predicament for a time. Nevertheless， the people-to-people diplomacy between the two countries never ceased. Now Sino-American relationship has developed into a new stage， from the former stage with a strong sentimental tinct and blindness into a stage of reasonable diplomacy. In our contacts with the United States， we should not argue about ideological differences， but should put national interests in the first place. There is cooperation as well as struggle in Sino-American relations. We should take a broad and long view and bear in mind what Chairman Mao said to Edgar Snow: “Hopes are placed on the American people.” We should understand the conditions in America as well. American presidents are elected by the people， so they have to consider the will of the people in their conducts， and can hardly accomplish anything that is opposed by the common people. Therefore， it has special significance to carry out people-to-people friendship work with the U.S.

Gu: What you’ve said about reasonable diplomacy is very good. But what are the concrete ways to carry out people-to-people friendship work with the U.S. ?

Li: In my opinion， reasonable diplomacy means that in our international contacts including our friendship work， we should dim and transcend differences in the realm of ideology. This is a very important point of view， and I hope you may note it down. In our people-to-people friendship work with the U.S.， we take American big companies as a focus. Let the interests of American big companies be mixed with the Chinese market， and let them make profits in China; but making profits only won’t do， they should also make contributions to Sino-American relations. Many big companies have their lobbies in Washington; they can influence the Congress and restrict American policies. So to make friends with American big companies can help us to do work with American political circles and the Congress. For instance， through United Parcel Service (UPS) we have successively dispatched three delegations to America， which， composed of teachers， students of primary and secondary schools， peasants and folk artists， are named “Say As It Is” delegations. It’s just such delegations of ordinary people that have met with more than sixty congressmen in America， introduced the situation about the reform and opening-up in China， the changes in its rural areas， its future development and prospects， and the importance of Sino-American relations and the Taiwan issue， and achieved unexpected good results.

Gu: What is UPS? And how did the Friendship Association begin its contact with it?

Li: UPS is an American company mainly engaged in global express delivery service. Ranking 130th or so among the world 500 top companies， it has a total staff of 360，000 and its business covers over 200 countries and regions in the world. Our Association hosted the first delegation of this company in 1995. Later on we again helped to arrange their visits to China on several occasions， and deep friendship and close cooperation were thus established between the two sides. They donated one school， one computer laboratory， fifty computers and one sports field to Zunhua City of Hebei Province. In 2003 they again donated one computer laboratory and thirty computers to the Hope Primary School in Xibaipo. The materials and tools for the construction of the computer laboratory were all shipped from the U.S. by sea. This time four congressmen and their wives and a number of board directors and senior staff of the company， more than seventy in all， went to the sacred revolutionary place Xibaipo. They started to work at five in the morning and kept working till six in the evening， and spent only one and a half days to complete the assembling of the computer laboratory. Their enthusiasm was really very touching. But the UPS President Mr. Mike Eskew said although they had donated one computer laboratory and sweated for its construction， what they had gained was much more than what they had paid， because they had harvested precious friendship. They were moved by the children of Xibaipo， and it was their hope that Sino-American relations would have a future as bright as their relations with these children.

Gu: From the UPS example you referred to， we can see the importance of doing friendship work among the American people， especially among American big companies. To deal with big companies is something the Friendship Association didn’t do before， and therefore is a kind of pioneering work.

Li: You are right. People-to-people diplomacy should also serve national construction. For instance， when we hosted the Chairman of the Board of Directors of the U.S. Citibank Mr. Charles Prince， we arranged for Premier Zhu Rongji to meet with him. He suggested to Premier Zhu that China should strengthen its work in financial supervision and management， which attracted the Premier’s attention， and thereafter the Financial Supervision and Management Bureau was established in our country. Another example is the United Technologies Corporation of U.S.A. (also one of the world 500 top companies) which we have received on their visit to China. They have funded the Chaoyang District of Beijing Municipality in running a re-employment training project for unemployed women， to provide them with a free training， help them to learn new knowledge and skills and find new jobs. In short， a lot of work can be done through people-to-people channels， and there are bright prospects for people-to-people diplomacy.

Gu: Some people hold that people-to-people diplomacy is very important and can play a pioneer role and promote official diplomacy only before the establishment of state relations. Now that our country has established diplomatic ties with the overwhelming majority of the countries in the world， and official diplomacy plays a dominant role， the space of people-to-people diplomacy will invariably become smaller. But what you’ve said just now soundly refuted this argument.

Li: In my opinion， in the world today， people-to-people diplomacy will become more and more important instead of being weakened. To ignore the importance of people-to-people diplomacy is short-sighted and unwise. Take Sino-Japanese relations for example， it’s also necessary to strengthen people-to-people friendship work.We should take a strategic view of Sino-Japanese relations and strive to jump out of the shadow of history through the efforts by both sides; we should keep the overall situation in mind like playing a game of weiqi. In this respect the Friendship Association can also do a lot of work. Besides， we should also do work with the third world countries， and with the countries that have not established diplomatic relations with us. Last year I led a CPAFFC delegation to Guatemala， and attended sixteen meetings and discussions there within two and a half days. The speaker of the parliament， the minister of economy and many other top officials met with the delegation. There are altogether seven countries in Central America， and none of them has established diplomatic ties with us. On learning our visit to Guatemala， many friends of these countries hurried to the hotel where we were staying and discussed with us the possibility of establishing friendship-with-China organizations in their respective countries. To the countries without diplomatic ties with us， the Friendship Association can play the role of a bridge and do the basic work to promote the establishment of diplomatic relations. The spheres of work of the Friendship Association are very wide. The question is there should be new ideas， and the courage to make friends and make explorations.

Gu: You’ve given a very good account of the foreign work of the Friendship Association， and some of your opinions are very enlightening. I’ve heard that as the executive vice president of the Association， you are also responsible for the internal work and the capital construction of the Association. And people know that you have spent a lot of energies in improving the Association’s compound to make it more beautiful. Could you also say a few words about this?

Li: The life of a human being is composed of two things: career and family. One third of the time is spent lying in bed; one third for activities at home; and one third in the unit of work. Therefore whether the work environment is good or not is an important element for the happiness of a life. We want to do our best to create a good environment so that people may feel happy when they work here.

Gu: It embodies the principle of “ people first”.

Li: That’s right. The principle of “people first”. Besides， as the Friendship Association is an important window in international contacts， we ought to make it more presentable so as to show the changes brought by reform and opening-up. We’ve spent five years in improving the whole compound including all the buildings， trees and lawns. Buildings in violation of the rules were all demolished， while historical relics all preserved. In renovating or reconstructing the old buildings， the principle of “keeping old features in renovating old buildings” was strictly followed. As the buildings in the Association’s compound originally belong to Italian style， we chose European style as the main style in renovation so as to achieve a unified style for the whole compound. We also got support and assistance from foreign friends in the renovation. For instance， the turf was donated by Dutch friends， and the spray irrigation unit was given by Israeli friends. In order to build the Friendship Hall， we solicited contributions of nearly 4 million yuan from friends of various countries， but finally they were not all spent and the saved money of 1 million yuan was transferred to the Friendship Foundation. When the renovation of the Friendship Hall was first started， many people didn’t believe it could be accomplished， because it lacked capital as well as technique. However， through diligent work and after overcoming many difficulties， it was accomplished eventually.

Gu: The renovation and beautification of the Association’s compound is a big achievement of the current leadership of the Association， which people can see and feel its benefits everyday.

Li: It’s indeed a bit better than before. It’s chosen by Beijing Municipality as an environment model. But it still has shortcomings and remains to be further improved. I have a plan to remodel the small building to the north of the auditorium for use as a library. It will also be in European style. People can not only read books and go online there， but also drink coffee and eat western food.

Gu: That will be excellent! Besides， I’ve heard that you are also very much concerned with the training of the cadres of the Association and personally in charge of the work of training translators.

Li: This is a question which I have stressed time and again in recent years. Talents are productive forces. We must give first priority to the training of talented people in our work. Last year we already set up a cadres training center and practised a system of competition in the promotion of cadres. In addition， a series of measures will be taken in future. I hope you elder comrades will contribute more efforts in the training of translators.

Gu: Now I’d like to ask you some questions about yourself. Your late father Comrade Li Xiannian was one of the founders of New China and has been well respected by the Chinese people. When he met with guests of the Friendship Association during his lifetime， I had the honor to interpret for him several times and was left with deep impressions. But could you tell me as his daughter how you looked at him in family and how he influenced you in your growth and character?

Li: To tell you the truth， I behaved quite independently even when I was very young. So my father often said that I was the most disobedient child in the family. And he repeatedly told us to speak less outside and warned us not to make trouble. So in many years after I began to work， I tried my best to restrain myself so as not to cause him any trouble. It was only after he passed away in 1992 that I really began to do things independently and display my ability to analyze problems and do leadership work. It should be admitted that there was my father’s influence in my growth， but I more believed in my own efforts. It may be said it was a pushing from two sides， but I mainly depended on myself.

Gu: I remember when Comrade Li Xiannian had a talk with foreign guests， he always came straight to the point using a terse and lively language， and never spoke draggingly. This seemed to reflect his character in a way; and you seem to be a bit like him in this character.

Li: Perhaps you mean I speak fast and do things quickly. Yes， maybe I am a bit like him in this way. People describe me as “ a straight person who speaks in a straight way”. I speak fast， think fast， and I’m quite quick to accept new things. My another character is， as the saying goes， “hate evil like an enemy”. I never compromise with things in violation of the principle. Now the Education Campaign to Preserve the Advanced Nature of Party Members is going on. To preserve the advanced nature of Party members， we must build the Party for the public and exercise power for the people， and put the interests of the people in the first place. We should not change in faith， or in our love of the motherland and the people; but we may change our methods of work and should make constant renovations in work， and so a great amount of work needs to be done.

Gu: Do you have any hobbies besides your work? I remember you dance very well. At the Spring Festival party of the Association this year， together with comrades of the American and Oceanian Department you performed an item adapted from a film. You played the role of an art troupe leader in that film.

Li: What did you think of my acting? Was it all right? People seek different things in different stages of life. Between twenty and thirty they seek knowledge; between thirty and forty life’s value; between forty and fifty achievements in career. I’m over fifty now. As Confucius said: “At fifty， I knew the decrees of Heaven.” Now I really want to do something I like to do. Actually， I have a wide range of interests. I like painting， I like decoration designing. But I’m too busy with work， I have no time to do these things. I don’t care about what post I hold; so long as I remain at post， I will continue to contribute my efforts for the Friendship Association and for the cause of people-to-people diplomacy of our country.

Gu: You’ve given a good talk today， it’s very rich in content. And I’ve asked the questions I wished to ask. In fact， all my questions can be summed up as one question: Why are you so devoted to people-to-people diplomacy work? I got a satisfactory answer from your talk. So I want to choose this question as the title of the interview， do you think it’s all right?

Li: It’s up to you. Thank you for this interview. Now shall we end our talk today; we can chat again when we have time later. (During the interview， the telephone in Li’s office rang constantly. Each time she picked up the receiver， she said: “I’m having a meeting. Please call later.” It was in this way that the “meeting” between her and me was eventually finished without being interrupted， and the “meeting” took place on the morning of February 25， 2005.)