美國人談美國

斯特斯·特科爾（Studs Terkel），美國著名作家、歷史學(xué)家、電臺(tái)主持人。被尊稱為普通美國民眾心聲的記錄者。20世紀(jì)60年代末期是美國歷史上一個(gè)具有特殊意義的時(shí)代，民權(quán)運(yùn)動(dòng)、女權(quán)運(yùn)動(dòng)、學(xué)生運(yùn)動(dòng)、反戰(zhàn)運(yùn)動(dòng)以及形形色色的社會(huì)騷亂遍及全美。特科爾走上街頭，深入社會(huì)記錄美國人的心聲，他利用這些豐富的原始資料共完成了四部口述歷史著作：《狄維遜街（Division Street）》、《艱難時(shí)代：經(jīng)濟(jì)大危機(jī)口述歷史（ Hard Times： an Oral History of the Great Depression）》、《工作（Working）》和《美國夢尋（American Dreams， Lost and Found…）》。這些著作都屬于當(dāng)時(shí)的暢銷書，也因?yàn)樗_創(chuàng)的這一新穎的“口述實(shí)錄體”所取得的巨大成績，他贏得了普利策獎(jiǎng)。

Audie Cornish （Host）： In the early 1970s， radio host and oral historian Studs Terkel went around the country， tape recorder in hand， interviewing people about their jobs.

Studs Terkel collected more than 130 interviews， and the result was a book published 40 years ago called “Working.” People talk about what they do all day and how they feel about what they do. And something very rare for an oral history collection—it became a best-seller. “Working” struck a nerve because it elevated the stories of ordinary people and the most ordinary parts of their daily lives.

After the book came out， the cassettes were packed away in boxes and stored in Terkels home office， most of which have never been heard publicly.

Today， we bring you an excerpt. Its a moment of serendipity. Studs planned most of his interviews well in advance， but one morning， he was in a taxi on the way to the airport in Youngstown， Ohio. The driver was a woman named Helen Moog， a grandmother of five. They began talking， and Studs Terkel quickly unpacked his tape recorder and microphone and began rolling.

（Soundbite of archived recording）

Studs Terkel： Its about six oclock， early morning， and Im riding with Mrs. Moog—Mrs. Helen Moog—whos a limo driver， one of several drivers for this company.

Helen Moog： Yes， I am. Yes， I am.

Terkel： Now， I think as were heading now toward the airport at Youngstown—that sun is fantastic. We see part of the red， dont we？

Moog： Yes， it is. Thats something that an artist cant catch.

Terkel： How long have you been doing this work？

Moog： Well， Ive been doing it for a couple years.

Terkel： Now， I come in the case with what my book is about…about you and what youre doing now， as a limousine driver. Before your work， most of your life was what？

Moog： Well， I did secretarial work， and when I was much younger， I did waitress work.

Terkel： Does the work day seem long？

Moog： Oh， surprisingly， not as long as you would think. First of all， I love to drive. And secondly， you make people from all walks of life. And many people have problems， but often times， its good to know they can talk to someone whos a total stranger to them. They have a habit of confiding in that person because they feel that theyll never see the person again.

Terkel： So a lot of your passengers tell you things.

Moog： Oh， yes. Liking people—I think thats what makes it really…

Terkel： Yeah. Before I pay you for the cab， could you do this—describe a day from the moment you get up in the morning？ Could you do that， you know？ About what time would you say you get up in the morning usually？

Moog： Well， like， this morning I was up at five cause I had an early morning pick-up at six. So I came out. I see a beautiful sky and a beautiful sun， so I know I have a good day ahead of me.

Terkel： And you work from about five until when？ When you get home？

Moog： Well， if Im lucky， Ill be home by 12：30.

Terkel： At night？

Moog： Mm-hmm.

Terkel： So theres a good—thats about 19 hours right there， isnt it？

Moog： Something like that today. When I dont have an early morning pick-up， I can average out around 12 hours.

Terkel： Do you look forward to retirement？

Moog： No. Im scared of it. I dont feel retirement is exactly the best of things for people. They—when you retire， you sort of go into a shell， and youre like the forgotten person. You get bogged down in nothing， and you do nothing， and you wind up nothing.

Terkel： Yeah. Thats interesting. So here you put in a minimum of 12 hours a day.

Moog： Right.

Terkel： Seven days a week.

Moog： Right. Oh， yeah.

Terkel： But youd feel more tired…

Moog： …If I didnt.

Terkel： Yeah.

Moog： This is true cause when Im not busy， I get very weary. So if I was to retire， with nothing to do， I dont think I could stand it.

Terkel： Its work， though， that you see. Work is the prime part of your life—work.

Moog： Yes， very much so. I think everything hinges on it and doing a good job on it…

Terkel： Yeah.

Moog： …Cause Im a firm believer if youre going to do something， do it to the best of your ability， or dont do it at all.

Terkel： Now， do you think a time will come， though， with automation and more and more machines that the hours will be shorter and shorter—people will have tremendous leisure time？

Moog： Im afraid they will， and Im afraid that its not for the best interest. Idle hands make an idle mind， and Im not in favor of the short hours. I think eight hours is fine. But like you say， automation will cut work down. Itll also cut a lot of jobs down. And I read an article here not too long ago regarding this future. And I think itll also increase unemployment， unless they can come up with something else that would make for more employment. But which—who knows what it could be？

Terkel： Were coming back to the question of work itself—work and life. You see the two connected， dont you？

Moog： Very much so.

Terkel： Work and life.

Moog： They work hand-in-hand.

Terkel： Thats why the hours， then， go fast for you.

Moog： I would say， yes. And people are interesting—no question. And when people say thank you for helping them， and you dont even know how you have helped them， it really makes you feel nice inside. And I dont think theres anything that can take its place.

Terkel： Do you look forward to each day？

Moog： I do. I do because I never know whats going to happen the next day. And its always interesting to find out. If you dont go out there， youre not going to find out by sitting at home.

奧迪·科尼什（主持人）：20世紀(jì)70年代初期，身為電臺(tái)主持人和口述歷史學(xué)家的斯特斯·特科爾走遍全國，用手中的磁帶錄音機(jī)采訪各行各業(yè)的人們，了解他們的工作。

斯特斯·特科爾搜集了超過130個(gè)采訪，整理成書，于40年前出版，名為《工作》。人們談?wù)撍麄円徽斓墓ぷ饕约八麄儗ぷ鞯母惺堋Ｔ摃蔀榱藭充N書，這對一本口述歷史集來說極不尋常。《工作》觸及了讀者的神經(jīng)，因?yàn)樗塾谄胀ㄈ说纳睿€有他們?nèi)粘Ｉ钭钇胀ǖ牟糠帧?/p>

該書出版后，盒式錄音帶就被收藏在盒子里，保存在特科爾的家庭辦公室，大多數(shù)從未公開。

今天，我們帶來了一個(gè)選段。這是一個(gè)機(jī)緣巧合，斯特斯的大多數(shù)采訪都是提前計(jì)劃好的，但是一天早晨，他在俄亥俄州的揚(yáng)斯敦坐上了前往機(jī)場的出租車。司機(jī)是一位名叫海倫·穆格的女士，她已是五個(gè)孩子的祖母。他們開始交談，很快斯特斯·特科爾打開他的磁帶錄音機(jī)和麥克風(fēng)，開始錄下這段對話。

（存檔錄音片段）

斯特斯·特科爾：現(xiàn)在大約清晨六點(diǎn)，我坐在穆格女士的車上，海倫·穆格是一名接送車司機(jī)，是這家公司的幾名司機(jī)之一。海倫·穆格：是的，我是。是的，我是。特科爾：現(xiàn)在，我想我們在駛往揚(yáng)斯敦的機(jī)場的路上——太陽真美，我們可以看到紅色的一部分，不是嗎？

穆格：是的，那是藝術(shù)家無法捕捉到的。

特科爾：你做這行多長時(shí)間了？

穆格：嗯，好幾年了。

特科爾：現(xiàn)在，我要進(jìn)入我的書的主題，是關(guān)于……關(guān)于你和你現(xiàn)在的工作，接送車司機(jī)。在這份工作之前，你大部分的生活是怎樣的？

穆格：嗯，我做過秘書，再年輕點(diǎn)兒的時(shí)候做過服務(wù)員。

特科爾：一天的工作是不是很漫長？

穆格：哦，并不像你想的那樣漫長，這點(diǎn)會(huì)讓你吃驚。首先，我愛駕駛;其次，你接送各行各業(yè)的人們。許多人有各種各樣的麻煩事，但很多時(shí)候，知道他們能夠與完全陌生的人交談，這種感覺很好。他們習(xí)慣向那陌生人吐露心事，因?yàn)樗麄冇X得彼此將永遠(yuǎn)不會(huì)再見。

特科爾：所以很多乘客會(huì)向你說一些心事。

穆格：哦，是的。喜歡人們——我覺得那真的會(huì)……

特科爾：是的。在我付給你車費(fèi)之前，你能做這個(gè)——描繪下從早上起床那刻起，你一天的生活嗎？你知道的，你可以描述下嗎？說說你早晨通常幾點(diǎn)起床？

穆格：嗯，比如，今天早上我五點(diǎn)起床，因?yàn)榱c(diǎn)我有個(gè)清晨接送的活兒。所以我出來了。我看到美麗的天空、燦爛的太陽，所以我知道美好的一天在等待著我。

特科爾：你從大約五點(diǎn)工作到幾點(diǎn)？什么時(shí)候回到家？

穆格：嗯，如果幸運(yùn)的話，十二點(diǎn)半能回到家。

特科爾：晚上？

穆格：嗯嗯。

特科爾：所以有——要工作大約十九個(gè)小時(shí)，不是嗎？

穆格：今天大概是這樣的。如果清晨沒有接送的話，我平均一天工作大約十二個(gè)小時(shí)。

特科爾：你想過退休嗎？

穆格：不。我害怕退休。我覺得退休對人們來說并不是最好的事情。他們——當(dāng)你退休后，你就有點(diǎn)像鉆進(jìn)一個(gè)殼里，你就像是被遺忘的人。你停滯不前，無所事事，一無所有。

特科爾：是啊，你的想法很有趣。那么你至少每天工作十二個(gè)小時(shí)。

穆格：對。

特科爾：一周七天。

穆格：對。哦，是的。

特科爾：但是你會(huì)覺得更累……

穆格：……如果我不工作的話。

特科爾：是的。

穆格：不忙的時(shí)候是這樣的，我覺得很疲憊。所以如果我要退休的話，無所事事，我想我會(huì)受不了的。

特科爾：但是這就是工作，你懂的。工作在你生活中排在首位。

穆格：是的，的確是這樣，我認(rèn)為所有的事情都取決于工作和好好工作……

特科爾：是的。

穆格：……因?yàn)槲覉?jiān)信如果你要做一件事，就要全力以赴，否則干脆不做。

特科爾：但是現(xiàn)在，自動(dòng)化和越來越多的機(jī)器使工作所需的時(shí)間越來越短，人們將擁有更多的閑暇時(shí)光，你認(rèn)為這個(gè)時(shí)代即將到來嗎？

穆格：我想人們會(huì)擁有的，可我覺得那不是最好的。雙手閑下來了，思想也會(huì)閑下來，我不喜歡縮短時(shí)間。我覺得（工作）八小時(shí)很好。但是正如你所說，自動(dòng)化會(huì)減少工作量，它同時(shí)也會(huì)減少就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)。不久前我讀過一篇提到這些未來趨勢的文章。我認(rèn)為這同時(shí)也會(huì)增加失業(yè)率，除非他們能在別的方面增加就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)。但是，誰知道未來會(huì)怎么樣呢？

特科爾：我們回到工作本身的問題——工作和生活。你明白二者之間的聯(lián)系，不是嗎？

穆格：非常明白。

特科爾：工作和生活。

穆格：它們?nèi)跒橐惑w。

特科爾：所以時(shí)間對你來說，過得很快。

穆格：我想說，是的。毫無疑問，人們很有趣。當(dāng)人們感謝你幫助他們時(shí)，你甚至不知道你如何幫過他們，這真的會(huì)讓你打心底里高興。我認(rèn)為沒有什么可以代替這種感覺。

特科爾：你對每天都充滿期待嗎？

穆格：是的，我期待每天的到來，因?yàn)槲矣肋h(yuǎn)不知道第二天會(huì)發(fā)生什么，發(fā)現(xiàn)（未知）的過程總是很有趣。如果你不出去，坐在家里是永遠(yuǎn)不會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)的。