專訪美國(guó)能源部長(zhǎng)朱棣文

本期人物:

朱棣文(Steven Chu)，美國(guó)華裔科學(xué)家，1948年出生于美國(guó)密蘇里州圣路易斯;1970年畢業(yè)于羅徹斯特大學(xué)，獲數(shù)學(xué)和物理學(xué)學(xué)士;1976年獲加州大學(xué)伯克利分校物理學(xué)博士;1997年獲得諾貝爾物理學(xué)獎(jiǎng)。2009年1月朱棣文出任奧巴馬政府能源部長(zhǎng)，成為美國(guó)歷史上第二位華裔部長(zhǎng)和首位擔(dān)任美國(guó)內(nèi)閣部長(zhǎng)的諾貝爾獎(jiǎng)得主。他在中西文化的共同浸染下長(zhǎng)大，繼承了中西文化的精髓，并為中美兩國(guó)在能源和氣候方面的交流與合作架起了橋梁。作為學(xué)者，他治學(xué)嚴(yán)謹(jǐn);作為部長(zhǎng)，他做事認(rèn)真。從學(xué)術(shù)界到政界，朱棣文實(shí)現(xiàn)了完美的轉(zhuǎn)身。

Chinese Ancestry

中國(guó)血統(tǒng)

Shui: This is a very important visit by you since you became the Secretary of Energy. I don’t know whether you know that you have a lot of fans in China. Tianjin University is a very special university for you. Do you have any message to the audience here in China?

Steven: Well， sure. First， let me talk about Tianjin. As you know， my mother’s side of my family came from Tianjin. My grandfather went to Tianjin University and later became dean and president. I think what I admire a lot about China (and this maybe is in my DNA) is that China has a deep respect for scholarship， and maybe I have fans because I am a scholar. I’m not really sure. Certainly my family do so—when my brothers and I were growing up， they always said how important it is that you are a scholar.

The Similarities of Two Countries

中美在能源上的相似之處

Shui: I noticed that you gave a very strong message in Tsinghua， and the subtitle of your speech is something like “the story or tale of two countries”. Why did you use that title?

Steven: Well， what I was trying to show was that China and the United States have many similarities regarding the energy and climate change problems and issues. If the climate continues to change the way the scientists predict， then both countries will suffer a great deal. Both countries have the key roles in the world. The United States as a leader of the developed world and China as a leader of the developing world should try to change the course and the destiny of our planet. And so the government of the United States is becoming very serious about using energy wisely and reducing our use of energy. China of course wants to become more prosperous， and has the ability， the right， and the privilege to do that. But China should do this in an energy-efficient way， instead of building up an infrastructure the way the United States built it up (at a time when energy was very inexpensive and a time when we didn’t know the consequences of carbon emissions). So it’s very important that as China grows more and more prosperous， it should do this in a proper way， and it can learn from others’ unfortunate lessons. And so I think this message is: “Both countries， great countries—great resources， great energy resources and renewal of energy—have an opportunity. And we have so many things in common that we should help each other.”

Achievements of the China Trip

中國(guó)之行的收獲

Shui: Tell us， what have you achieved so far?

Steven: We’ve announced two agreements. One of them is for a research and development center， jointly funded by China and the United States. The purpose of this research center is to develop new technologies that could be deployed. These technologies would be used in building efficiencies. They would also be helpful in the use of coal， which both the United States and China have vast reserves. But we both want to use this coal in a much cleaner way， which would include the capture and sequestration1) of carbon dioxide as well as getting the other pollutants out. And finally it would do some research in improving automobile efficiency and electrification2)， because both China and the United States import considerable amounts of oil， and we feel considerable pressure to free ourselves from the rising use of the oil.

Shui: So maybe in the future， the relationship between big powers like the United States and China will shift more towards environmental issues rather than conventional issues like political， diplomatic， military， or economic issues.

Steven: I would love that. I see this energy and climate change problem as a mutual problem. It’s not one side or the other; it’s not “if one wins， the other loses.” This is essentially a common challenge and effectively a common foe. This is something that is so important. Not only what a serious problem it is， but what an opportunity it is—because in developing these new green， clean energy technologies， this challenge becomes a way of developing new jobs. And again， it is not “someone wins; someone loses.” Developing jobs is something that both China and the United States， and the world， want to do—jobs that could put people to work at useful things. And so this is something that I think I would want to echo: instead of trying to talk about gaining certain advantage， one country over another， I’d say this is something that all countries should recognize as a common goal.

Comment on China’s Efforts

對(duì)中國(guó)所作努力的評(píng)價(jià)

Shui: How do you comment on the efforts China has made in recent years， especially in terms of reducing the greenhouse gas emissions and taking more measures to fight against this climate change?

Steven: I’m very encouraged. I met with Premier Wen Jiabao perhaps two years ago and had the great privilege of meeting with him privately and talking for about forty-five minutes or maybe an hour on transitioning to sustainable energy. He told me of the plans that were going on to improve the energy intensity in China. Now two years later， I come back and I see that many of these things are taking action. The energy intensity has actually decreased by over 10%， with a goal of 20%. It’s very optimistic; China will meet those goals. And I see various efforts in energy efficiency. I’m very encouraged to see that China takes this very seriously. And another thing that I see is all the leaders that I’ve talked to on this trip freely acknowledge that climate change is a very serious issue， and they’re going to do everything they can， despite the fact that China is a developing country; they also recognize the serious consequences if they don’t start to move. This is very encouraging to me. Now， in the new administration， I hope that we， too， will work very seriously in the United States and show a leadership role in decreasing our use of energy and developing cleaner sources of energy.

A Supporter of Saving Energy

節(jié)省能源，點(diǎn)滴做起

Shui: You are so strong a supporter of saving energy for a clean energy， and I noticed actually you are suggesting turning the roofs white. Is that realistic?

Steven: Well， it’s not “turn the roofs white”. I think when you re-roof or when you build a new house， if you put a light colored roof or a white roof， this is not only realistic， but makes great sense. There are estimates that if you have a light colored roof that reflects the sun energy， you can reduce the air conditioning somewhere between 10%～25%. So you reduce your cooling bills. Even if you don’t use air conditioning， your home or your building will be cooler in the summer. And that’s of great benefit， and it really costs no more to put a light colored roof than it does to put a dark colored roof. So when you re-roof in the daily maintenance you could consider， “Ok， why make it black， when it costs the same amount of money to make it light colored and I save on cooling bills and my house becomes a more comfortable place.”

Bad Situation in Terms of Climate Change

氣候變化的嚴(yán)峻形勢(shì)

Shui: Tell us， Mr. Secretary， how bad is the situation in terms of climate change and the carbon dioxide emission， things like that?

Steven: Well， first of all， we’ve seen some changes and I think they have so far been relatively mild. I think even some people in Beijing have noticed perhaps over the last decade or so that the summers have been warmer.

Shui: That’s right. You see more winds…

Steven: And perhaps slightly more storms， heavier rainfalls. There are also water issues in Northern China. We have seen similar things in the United States. Most people don’t realize that the amount of greenhouse gases humans have put out to date has been large. The full effects will not be seen perhaps for 100 years. We’re just beginning to see the effects of what we’ve done in the last 100， or 150 years. So what has already been built into the system is perhaps another half to one degree centigrade rise of average temperature. That does not sound like much， but I should point out that when the world was in the last of the ice ages， the world was only six degrees centigrade colder than it is today. Now I don’t know what life was like in China during the last of the ice ages， but I can tell you what life was like in the United States and Canada. Virtually all of Canada and the United States down to Ohio and Pennsylvania， mid-United States， were covered year-round in ice. And it was only six degrees colder. What the studies have shown is there’s roughly a 50% chance that if we continue as business as usual， it could be anywhere from four degrees to six degrees warmer by the end of this century—if we just continue on our current path. The world that is four to six degrees warmer will be a very different place. It will be a world that doesn’t recognize national boundaries; it will be a world that doesn’t recognize many many things. In the United States， for example， the whole western part of the United States will be severely water-stressed. The agriculture， in the United States， will be at great risk. I took a cursory3) look before I took this trip at what the effects on China will be: China will suffer in the Northern parts similar stresses. And this is very serious.

Shui: So in this case， for all human beings it’s a situation of lose-lose or win-win.

Steven: Right， exactly. And it’s very hard for societies to say， “This is something that’s going to happen in 50 years or 100 years from today.” It might require some investment. You might say， “Well， I don’t want to invest in this.” For China， you might say， “We’re a developing country.” Of course， you want to bring more prosperity. But I think you can have the prosperity， and it can actually be a more prosperous world when you have this concerted effort to develop these new things， because that’s actually a cause and a reason to develop new things and to channel the energy and the growth in GDP into this end. For example， in the last really serious depression (it was in the 1930’s)， there were stimulus plans and all these other things， and historians have often said what really got the world out of this depression was rearmament4) and World War II. Well， today’s fact is， we don’t have to get the world out of depression by arming and going to war. We can propel the economies of the world by making a new industrial revolution and a new agricultural revolution.