叢林學院：不止是佛學的殿堂——專訪叢林學院院長永光法師

Most people only know that， as a cradle of Sangha， Fo Guang Shan Tsunglin University has cultivated batches of Buddhism researchers in past 50 years and developed a school of its own in world Buddhism research. They hardly realize that， Tsunglin University is more than a palace of Buddhism and plays an important role in livelihood education and life education of social youths. The reporter makes an exclusive interview on Master Yongguang， President of FGS Tsunglin University and tries to uncover a deeper layer of Fo Guang Shan education system of “Engaged Buddhism”.

大多數人都只知，佛光山叢林學院作為僧伽的搖籃，50年來培養出一批又一批的佛學研究人員，在世界佛學研究領域獨樹一幟。殊不知，叢林學院不止是佛學的殿堂，在開展社會青年生活教育和生命教育方面更是扮演了重要的角色。為此本刊記者專訪了叢林學院院長永光法師，試圖揭開佛光山“人間佛教”教育體系的深層含義。

UNITY： As a Buddhist college， how does Tsunglin University choose its education focus for cultivating the younger generation？

Master Yongguang： Fo Guang Shan has always given priority to education. The first building here is the school， namely Tsunglin University. When students come， they need a hall for morning and evening classes. Hence the Great Mercy Temple is built later.

UNITY：叢林學院作為一所佛學院，她在培養青年一代的問題上是如何選擇教育重點的？

永光法師：佛光山一向以教育為主，佛光山的第一個建筑就是學校，即叢林學院，當這些學生們來到叢林學院之后，發現早晚課需要有殿堂，因此才有了后來的大悲殿建筑。

Here are two main features of Tsunglin University： the first one is we admit social youths， which is the biggest difference from other Buddhist colleges. Generally speaking， Buddhist colleges are only for monks or nuns， that is to say graduates there must become monks or nuns. 30 year ago， when I was a teacher here， I doubted the admission of social youths. My opinion was simple that， if the graduates could not join our team of clergies in the future and leave us after three years of study， then our hard cultivation would be wasted. But Master Hsing Yun told me that， seeds don't have to blossom and yield fruit here but all around the world. If young people could get correct understanding of Buddhism after systematic and deep study in our university， then they would play a good guiding role when going back to the society.

叢林學院有兩大特色：一是學院會招收社會青年，這是與其他佛學院最大的區別，一般來講，佛學院只面向出家人，換句話說從佛學院畢業的學生一定要出家。30年前我在做教師的時候對叢林學院招收社會青年這一問題上也有過疑問，我的想法很簡單，就是如果佛學院的學生將來不能加入我們的僧侶團隊，三年之后就要學成離開的話，那我們的辛勤栽培豈不是付諸東流了？但是星云大師卻告訴我一個道理，種子不一定要在這里開花結果，他到世界各地都可以開花結果的，如果青年們在我們這里經過一個系統、深入的學習之后，對佛教有一個正確的認識，即使將來回歸社會也能起到一個非常好的引導作用。

The second is Tsunglin University pays much attention to students’ livelihood education. Many youths are spoiled at home， and when they come here we ask them to start everything from scratch. These days a batch of new students just enrolled. Apparently they couldn't keep up with the pace of life and they try very hard to adapt to the new life. In fact， our purpose is very simple and we just want to let them learn from life. The university has kept advocating “focusing on behavior and understanding and cultivating one’s blessing and wisdom”. Some has read a lot of books and is wealthy in knowledge， but lags behind in actual life operation. He is used to interacting with books but has deficiency in interaction with people， especially in team spirit.

I often speak to them that， when I was in Fo Guang Shan during early days， we five people needed to cook for 300 people within an hour. We were young at that time and couldn’t understand it， and then we asked Master Hsing Yun why we didn’t use gas tanks but firewood to cook since gas tanks were sold outside. He told us that， he did have money to buy gas tanks， but his purpose was tempering us.

The higher education background， the less time one would spend on life. Master Hsing Yun often says to us that， we should use the most original methods for cultivation and the most advanced methods for Buddhism promotion. You will see there are only a desk， a plank bed， a closet， a bookcase and an electric fan in our living place. Life is very easy here. It is actually a concept of life training and daily actions like going out， living， sitting and lying is a way of cultivation.

第二，叢林學院非常注重學生的生活教育。現在很多青年在家嬌生慣養，那么來到這里我們就要求他們一切從頭開始。這些天剛好有一批新學員入學，可以看到他們的生活節奏明顯跟不上，都是非常吃力的在適應新的生活。其實我們生活教育的目的很簡單，就是希望從生活上讓他們學習。叢林學院一直在提倡“行解并重，?；垭p修”，有的人書本讀的非常多，學富五車，但是實際的生活操作就不見得如何了，他已經習慣于和書本的互動，但是在與人的互動這一點上，尤其是團隊的精神上極其欠缺。

我經常跟他們講，早期我來佛光山的時候，我們5個人要煮飯給300人吃，而且必須是在一個小時之內，我們那時候也很年輕，對這件事非常不理解，我們就問星云大師，外面有賣瓦斯的，我們為什么不用瓦斯而是要燒柴火呢？大師告訴我們，我不是沒有錢買瓦斯，我的目的是磨練你們。

學歷越高的人，花費在生活上的時間相對來說就越少一些。大師也經常和我們講，在修行這個問題上我們要使用最原始的方法，弘法則使用最先進的。所以你就會看到，我們居住的地方，只有一張桌子，一個木板床，頂多一個衣櫥和書櫥，一個電風扇，如此而已，生活非常簡單。這其實就是在訓練生活的一個理念，日常的行住坐臥就是讓你修行的一個途徑。

We also foster team spirit and the notion of service and sacrifice. Students of Tsunglin University are very willing to support when there are big activities in Fo Guang Shan. They can pick up vegetables， clean and serve the dishes， and students are happy to take part in.

When having the experience here， the youths would grow up in a very healthy way， no matter later they become monks or nuns or not. Another aspect is life education， which is to let them have deeper understanding about life. So life education and livelihood education are two important characters of our university.

還有我剛剛講的培養團隊精神，有服務和奉獻的理念。我們叢林學院的學生每逢佛光山有大型活動的時候，就非常愿意去支援，支援的途徑有很多，比如擇菜、打掃、行堂等，學生們都愿意參與其中。

其實這一系列生活下來之后，孩子會得到一個非常健康的成長，不管是出家還是在家。再者就是生命的教育，讓他們對生命有一個更深入的了解和認識，因此生命的教育和生活的教育就是我們叢林學院最重要的特點。

UNITY： What are the prospects of future development for graduates of Tsunglin University？

Master Yongguang： This question should be answered from the perspective of students’ composition of our university. Our students come from 16 countries and we don’t only train students who speak Chinese that it is truly an international university. So we have a very broad vision and it is very important for the form of belief and the recognition and promotion of Buddhism. Master Hsing Yun builds a broad platform for students in this university. They would not become unemployed after graduation that they can join in TV stations， newspapers and galleries to use their skills， and also if they want to seek chances around the world， the university would provide opportunities for them. There are five students learning French in this semester and Master Hsing Yun wants to send them to France to further their studies and communicate. But since they are not monks or nuns and will not be monks or nuns in the future， others have put forward objections. But Master Hsing Yun is a real educator that he believes equal education of youths. He insists the idea and when the local temple is built， the students all offer to help. In Tsunglin University， Master Hsing Yun often gives students stages to broaden their horizons.

UNITY：叢林學院的學生將來畢業以后的發展方向是哪里呢？

永光法師：要回答這個問題得從叢林學院的學生構成來說，我們的學生來自全世界16個國家，可不是單單只培養說中文的學生，是一所名副其實的國際性大學，所以大家在一起交流學習的時候視野自然就很開闊，這對于信仰的養成，對佛教的一個認知與發揚非常重要。在這所學院里，星云大師為學生們搭建平臺，像電視臺、報紙、美術館等都有可以發揮自己一技之長的地方，而且如果你的意愿是要到世界各地去尋求發展，學院也是非常愿意給別人機會的。學院這學期就來了五位會法語的學生，星云大師希望把他們送去法國去深造、交流，但是因為他們是在家眾，就是將來不選擇出家途徑的學生，針對這一問題也有人提出過異議，但是星云大師是一位真正的教育家，他對青年的教育是平等的，他堅持讓他們出國學習，結果是，佛光山的寺院在法國當地落成后，這些學生紛紛主動前去幫忙。在叢林學院，大師會經常為學生們提供舞臺，開拓他們的視野。

UNITY： It has been 50 years since the establishment of Tsunglin University. How does it develop from a cradle of Sangha at first place into an international university today？

Master Yongguang： Tsunglin University starts from the time of Shoushan Temple. In 1965， “Shoushan Buddhist College” was built in Shoushan Temple， Fo Guang Shan and it was the starting point of Sangha education here. At that time， Master Hsing Yun reformed many shortcomings of Buddhist education like lack of education plans and teaching materials and narrow minds of students， in order to cultivate Buddhism specialists for education， culture and charity and realize the purposes of heart purification and social harmony. Buddhist education in Taiwan began to be completed since then.

UNITY：叢林學院迄今已有50年的歷史了，從最初定位于僧伽搖籃逐漸發展到今天的國際學院是如何一步步發展起來的？

永光法師：叢林學院始自壽山寺時期。1965年，“壽山佛學院”于佛光山壽山寺創建，是佛光山僧伽教育的起點。當時星云大師為造就佛教專才，以從事佛教教育、文化、慈善等事業，達到人心之凈化，社會安和樂利為宗旨，改革了當時佛教教育的諸多弊病，如：缺乏教學計劃、教材，及學生思想不夠開放等，而讓臺灣的佛教教育制度開始健全。

“Shoushan Buddhist College” changed into “Oriental Buddhist College” in 1967 and reformed Buddhist education system and established a system of three levels in 1989. Tsunglin University is equal to the college education. Though the system is very completed， the school operation is not smooth at first. We only recruit monks or nuns in early days for spreading knowledge to each temple， but for various reasons， students are not that much. Students enrollment becomes a large resistance， but we insist on down.

50 years later， Tsunglin University shoulders the education inheritance of the whole Fo Guang Shan system， and 90% of students here graduate from Buddhist College. But their school durations are various. Since many monks or nuns have higher degree nowadays， they need to study for half to one year and if teachers think they can master knowledge at a fast speed and get deep understanding of the true meaning of life， then they could leave to service.

We have 15 departments all over the world. Taking the department in India as an example， it is found by Master Huixian and exclusively recruits little monks of Shakya. Buddha belongs to Shakya. There are more than 30 little monks and Master Huixian has a famous saying， “I believe a father’s shoulder coming from shouldering responsibilities”. As he is only over 30， it is not easy for him to raise 30 monks. The department is affirmed by the government and after finishing school students need to take examinations.

1967年“壽山佛學院”更名為“東方佛教學院”，并于1989年進行佛教教育學制的改革，建立三級層次的佛教教育制度。叢林學院便相當于大學教育。雖然教育體制非常完善，但是一開始學校的運行并不順利，由于最早學院招收的學生是出家眾，出發點是給各個寺院的僧眾傳播知識，但是由于種種原因，送來受教的僧眾并不是很多。招生難成為我們的一大阻力，但是我們堅持了下來。

50年之后的今天，叢林學院已經承擔了整個佛光山體系的教育傳承任務，佛光山上的出家眾百分之九十九都是佛學院畢業的。當然他們當中有的人在讀的時間長，有的在讀的時間短，因為現在很多出家眾都有著較高的學歷，所以一般情況這些高學歷的人進到佛學院要學習半年到一年，如果老師覺得他們掌握知識速度比較快，對生活的真諦體會的比較深刻，那么他們就可以出來服務了。

目前我們在全世界建立有15個學部，以我們在印度創辦的學部為例，是慧顯法師創辦的，專門招收釋迦族的小沙彌，佛陀就是釋迦族的，現在那里的小沙彌有30幾個，他有一句名言，“我相信父親的肩膀是撐出來的。”因為他本身也只有30幾歲，要養30多個小沙彌著實不是一件容易的事情。這個學部的教育是經過政府認定的，在學院學習完后，要去政府參加考試。

UNITY： How many departments like this in the world？

Master Yongguang： We have this kind of departments in the USA and Japan. But in South Africa and the Philippines， because of the limits of sites， we could only recruit 40 students for those high school graduates from countryside who are good at learning but cannot afford future studies. When recruiting students this time， 17 principals brought 300 qualified ones to the interview.

UNITY：類似這樣的學部在全世界有多少？

永光法師：類似這樣的學部在美國、日本等國家都有，而在南非、菲律賓佛學院因為場地的關系，就只有40個名額，只能提供給高中畢業，學習成績好，但是沒有條件再繼續讀書的鄉下孩子。他們這次去招生，17個學校的校長竟然帶著他審核過的300個學生前來面試。

As we just mentioned， Tsunglin University is mainly focus on livelihood education and life education. After this， those who can go to university may continue their study and others could find jobs. If they want to stay in Buddhism they could stay. So masters in the international departments all transcend religions. They would not do not want to teach students in the Philippines since it is a Catholic country， as long as the students are willing to be educated. Most of the students are 18 or 19 years old who study very hard. The departments would subsidize them to go to college if they are capable and our fifth university will be built in the Philippines. There are five universities， three middle and primary schools， five kindergartens and 16 Buddhist colleges and they are all built by Master Hsing Yun， who thinks only education can bring progress for the country， the society and the people.

我們剛剛提及過，叢林學院主要是要教會學生對生活的教育，對生命體驗的教育，而當結束了這兩個教育之后，能升大學的繼續去上大學，沒有辦法繼續上大學的就去找工作，愿意留在佛教的就留在佛教，所以這些國際性的學校大師已經跨越了宗教。他不會覺得菲律賓是天主教國家，而不愿意培養，只要他們愿意接受教育?，F在那些佛學院的孩子大多就是18、19歲，都是很認真的在讀書，如果他們有能力考大學，學院也會資助考大學，所以我們第五間大學要在菲律賓辦?，F在整個佛光山的教育體系是5間大學，3間中小學，5間幼稚園，16間佛學院，這些都是沒有上過學校的星云大師所創辦的，他認為國家、社會、人唯有教育才能進步。

UNITY： The school motto of Tsunglin University is “Compassion， Wisdom， Vows and Cultivation”. Can you give us a further explanation about it？

Master Yongguang： Master Hsing Yun pays much attention to youths and always gives them opportunities. He often encourages us that， the four Bodhisattvas， namely Ksitigarbha， Avalokitesvara， Manjusri and Samantabhadra， are all youths. Youths have power， which is called “youths’ strength and Bodhisattva’s heart”. Master Hsing Yun says to youths that， the four Bodhisattvas are our spiritual support. Avalokitesvara shows great compassion， Ksitigarbha shows great vows， Manjusri shows great cultivation and Samantabhadra shows great wisdom. So the palace for nuns is the Great Mercy Temple and that for monks is the Great Wisdom Temple and Master Hsing Yun wants us to learn from them.

UNITY：叢林學院的校訓是“悲智愿行”，請法師進一步闡述其所表達的意義是什么？

永光法師：星云大師對于青年都很用心，都給青年機會，大師經常勉勵我們，四個菩薩也是青年，地藏菩薩，觀音菩薩，文殊菩薩，普賢菩薩，青年擁有著力量，所謂“青年力，菩薩心”，星云大師常常告訴這些青年，四大菩薩是我們的精神，觀音菩薩顯示出來的是大悲，地藏菩薩是愿力，普賢菩薩是大行，文殊菩薩就是智慧，所以女眾的殿堂是大悲殿，男眾的殿堂就是大智殿，大師希望我們效仿他們的精神。

What the society needs most is compassion. Master Hsing Yun always reminds us that we should never give up anyone. He is definitely a great educator who teaches students in accordance of their aptitude. I once met a very talkative student， but as teachers， we prefer quiet and cautious ones. Master sent him to the Pilgrim Hall for monastery reception. Then he became very famous in this regard in Fo Guang Shan. It tells us that， we should not only see a person’s disadvantages， but dig the advantages to let everybody fully display his talents.

Here is another example. Students may ask for leave sometimes. A student asked for three days， and normally we would allow him to rest for one day. But he insisted on three days while Master Hsing Yun actually allowed him to rest for a week. In fact， the student went back to school within two days. It tells us that do not easily refuse someone’s request but offer him “better” options. Teaching needs methods. When having class， some younger students may fall asleep and others would raise objections. And then Master would say as long as it doesn't affect others， he can sleep during class and when he wakes up he may hear a word or two and learn something as well.

For those students who are naughty and sleeping in class， most of the teachers turn to punish them. But Master Hsing Yun tells us that， do not punish them by incensing or penalty kneeling. Because once we often use these physical punishments to deal with them， they would have fear and resistance towards them when they grow up. So we can change another way， like asking them to sleep in class. How could it be possible when having class？ And they would become obedient later. Education needs methods and educator needs compassion. Never give up any students easily.

其實現在的社會最需要的就是慈悲心，大師常常提醒我們說，不舍棄每一個眾生，星云大師確實是一個非常偉大的教育家，他用特別的教育方法教育每一個學生。我曾經遇到過一個非常喜歡說話的學生，作為一名老師，我們一向是比較喜歡乖巧慎言的學生。但是大師就將其派去朝山會館，去做知客，后來呢，他果然就成了佛光山一流的知客。這件事也教育了我們所有的人，看一個人不要只看到他的缺點，要善于挖掘一個人的優點才能人盡其才。

再比如，有時會有學生請假，請三天，一般來講，我們會允許他休息一天就可以了，但是他仍然執意要休息3天，星云大師竟然允許他休息一周，事實上那個學生只有不到2天就回到了學校。這件事大師告訴我們的道理是，遇到別人的請求，不要輕易地拒絕他，要學會用“好”來代替，教育要講究方法。還有就是在我們學生上課的時候，有的學生因為年齡比較小，特別調皮，就在上課的時間睡著了，這樣別的學生就會跟老師提出異議，大師這時候就會說，他睡覺只要不影響到其他人就可以了，等他睡醒了自然也會聽進去一兩句，也可以學到東西的。

我們大部分老師遇到這些調皮的、上課睡覺的學生都想著去懲罰他們，但是大師卻告誡我們，不要用點香罰跪的辦法去懲罰這些孩子，因為一旦經常用這些身體的懲罰方式去處理他們，等他們長大以后一定會在心理上對這些產生懼怕和抵觸，因此我們何不換一種方式，比如罰他們去睡覺，你想，這邊在上課他怎么會睡得著呢？然后從此以后就變得很乖了。教育也要講究方式，教育者要有一顆慈悲之心，不輕易放棄任何一個徒弟、一個學生。

UNITY： What is the whole development trend of Tsunglin University？

Master Yongguang： The largest number of people in our school reached more than 800. Firstly， I think the quality and degree of students here are improving as a whole. Former students came here at the age of 16 after graduation from high school， but now they are all elites. Here is a joke. Not long ago we carried out temple experiencing camp and short-term monks （nuns） activities to let them experience 7days’ monks’ （nuns’） life. One day， Master Hsing Yun asked me how many students we recruited， and my answer was about 100. I hoped he can make a speech for us， but he only makes speech when there are more than 1000 people. How did I persuade him？ I just told him that the 100 people are all elites including doctoral students from National Taiwan University and Peking University， and Master went happily to make a speech for them.

UNITY：叢林學院整體的發展趨勢是什么？

永光法師：我們學校人數最多的時候達到800多人。首先，我覺得現在來讀佛學院的學生的素質和學歷都是在整體提升。以前的學生國中畢業16歲就來讀書了，現在來的都是屬于精英。我講一個小笑話，前段時間我們辦寺院體驗營，還有短期出家活動，讓他們體驗7天的出家生活。一天大師問我一共招收了多少學生時，我回答是大概100人左右，我是非常希望大師能來給大家做演講，但是大師告訴我他當時演講的時候都是有1000多人來參加，所以讓我等參加的人數到1000人才可以，但是我是怎么勸說大師的呢？我說這次來的100多人都是精英，有臺大的博士生，北大的博士生，那大師就非常高興地來給大家授課去了。

Secondly， in early days， it was hard for parents to accept their children becoming monks or nuns or studying Buddhism， because at that time Buddhism belonged to folk beliefs of the minority， especially for elder people. But a while back， 28 students applied for becoming monks （nuns）， and there even was a female. Her mother was very happy for this and announced the news to relatives and friends. She even held banquet of four tables to celebrate her daughter marring Buddhism. Everyone is in a happy mood to look at learning Buddhism. I just want to say people have had correct attitude and understanding of Buddhism nowadays.

另一點是在早期的時候，如果我們和父母講要出家、學佛，家長一般都很難接受，因為這在當時畢竟還屬于少數人的民俗信仰，尤其以年齡較大的人為主。但是，前陣子居然有28位申請出家，甚至有一位女士，她母親非常高興地跟其親朋好友宣布消息稱，她女兒要出家了，嫁給佛門，還辦了四桌宴席，大家都是以一種歡喜的心情來看待學佛這件事情。其實我想說的是，現在的時代已經對佛學有了一個很正確的態度和認識。

UNITY： Should the students here be monks or nuns after graduation？

Master Yongguang： In general， students need to study here for three years but they would not necessarily become monks or nuns in the future. In our perspective， we do hope the university can adhere to the Master's expectations to let youths study through Buddhist College and ascend their understanding of livelihood and life to a new stage. There are too many things for young people to choose today. If they could experience this kind of learning， actually it would be helpful for our country， Buddhism and the whole world， since at least， they would not make troubles. Now many people always focus on “themselves” and let their own ideas dominant. We hope that by Buddhist education， they can purify themselves and start to help people around. Take yesterday’s volunteer sodality as an example， the prize presentation lasted from 1：30 to 4：00 since there are too many award winners. They work as volunteers for 200 hours， 400 hours， 800 hours and 1000 hours a year and show the understanding of service and dedication.

UNITY：那從學院畢業的學生將來一定要出家嗎？

永光法師：學生一般在這里要學習三年，但是并不一定將來出家。從學院的角度講，我們是真的希望秉承大師的期望，讓青年通過佛學院這個通道來這邊讀書，然后把自己對生活、生命的認識提升到一個新的階段。我們現在的年輕人可以選擇的東西太多，如果他們能夠接受這樣的學習，其實對于我們國家、對于佛教，還是對于整個世界都有幫助的，至少他不會制造問題。而且現在很多人說話都是在一直強調“我”，自我的想法占到了主導，我們希望通過佛學教育讓他們對自己有一個凈化，通過對佛學的養成，進而可以去幫助周圍的人。以昨天的義工聯誼會為例，我從下午一點半頒獎一直到四點，因為獲獎的人實在太多了。在一年的時間里，他們有的做義工200小時，或者400小時，800小時，甚至1000小時。這就充分體現了人們對于服務奉獻的理解。